Quick Note!

[starsandsea]

I will very likely not be able to see The Dark Knight Rises until next Wednesday at the very earliest, so I'm going to attempt to avoid mentions of it until then. :)

Also, as I'm sure everyone is aware, the Olympics start next week! There have, however, been rumours for quite a while that there could be severe internet problems here during it, with so many people trying to access everything, so... if I suddenly go (even) quiet(er!) during it, there's no need to be too alarmed. :)

ETA: Spoilers in comments!

Comments

[starsandsea.livejournal.com]

You've given me a lot to think about! This could get long...

(I am also very annoyed because I typed this all out then accidently deleted it, grrrrrr!)

At the end of it all, Batman sacrificed his life for the city, with his status as a hero restored, and everyone, everyone knowing what he did, and thus finally got the recognition he deserves. There is nothing at all that I do not find satisfying about that, it hits SO MANY of the things I have ever hoped for for Batman's end - I was probably the only one grinning when it became clear he was going to die. So, that, I am entirely happy with.

Bruce, however. Bruce is a very different manner. Movie!Bruce (at least in my opinion) has never been as close to Gotham as his comics counterpart, or any other his counterparts. As I noted once, in Batman Begins Bruce never once refers to Gotham as 'my city', when almost everyone else does. Nor does he in TDK, as far as I recall (I freely admit that I can not watch the TDK very often because the Joker is just so damn terrifying). One of the main themes of TDK was that Bruce was going to retire Batman as soon as Harvey was in office and settle down with Rachel, because he thought he wasn't going to be needed anymore, that Harvey could take over for him. And now, in TDKR, Bruce has been retired for 8 years, and I can not see comics!Bruce ever doing that, even with, and maybe even especially then, the way his body was betraying him (and I'm very glad they showed that too, btw!).

In TDKR this Bruce, at least to me, almost seemed to want to die, to be free from the apathy he had fallen into. The scenes in the prison seemed to be Bruce almost regaining his humanity, his fear of death, overcoming his apathy/depression and rising again into the light. Learning to live again... In many ways, I almost feel that movie!Bruce was more selfish in becoming Batman, to save himself (though I'm aware that can be argued for any version of Batman, really), since he didn't, like in the comics, decide as a child that he was going to become a crime fighter, didn't go through all that, he only decided to when he was a... a teenager? (I'm not clear on how old movie!Bruce was when he left Gotham for those 7 years.) But again, this Bruce has talked openly about retiring, as no other version of Bruce has done with seriousness.

So... I'm really not sure what I'm saying anymore, but his whole relationship with Gotham has just never felt as deep to me as it has in other media, though he clearly loves the city a great deal. And I think what you said, that Gotham had given Bruce up with love, was just perfect, because that is exactly what I feel. Bruce has given everything to Gotham, (though he maybe wasn't as close to her) and for Gotham to set him free, in the end, so he can be happy... But perhaps what I'm really trying to say, is that Batman is Gotham's, and Bruce is Gotham's to a lesser extent, but... I'm sure that, in movieverse, Batman's sacrifice will never be forgotten, and Gotham is happy with an immortal hero, who no one will ever really be able to compare to. So she can let Bruce go, and have a chance at happiness, even outside her.

I shall say, in conclusion, that I'm so SO happy for Alfred, OMG. Thank you so much for sending me the gif, it's just... *WIBBLES* (I almost really want to write a story about Lucius and Alfred meeting up after and quietly letting each other know about Bruce, eeeeee!) After everything, for Alfred to see that Bruce is free, has this chance at happiness... *flails*

Oh, and Blake! I'm really surprised at how much I loved Blake! I wanted to hug him so, so much! I didn't know anything about him at all, apart from your fics. :) The end that I called was Batman was going to die (though that was probably a forgone conclusion by everyone else too!) but when they had that scene and Bruce said that Batman could be anyone, I knew he was going to be Bruce's successor. Which again, probably forgone conclusion, lol!

OMG, this has become SO SO long, I'm sorry! And I sorry too if I come off as being really lecturing, that wasn't my intent. Just a lot of thoughts (that keep on being deleted, grrrrrr!). I'm very much looking forward to any to any fic you write post-TDKR!

[mithen.livejournal.com]

Oh no, you're not lecturing at all! I've been really really needing to talk to someone who comes from some of the same assumptions I have about Bruce and Gotham, to help me untangle why I feel so happy about Bruce's ending when he's walking away from Gotham forever, and you've really helped me with that! It is really necessary to remember that movie-Bruce doesn't have that almost-mystical bond with Gotham that he has in the comics, Gotham is a city that he cares about a lot, but it's a collection of buildings and people, not an entity of its own. And yes, coming to the decision to be Batman as a near-adult makes it more...a job he's chosen to do, not a Mission he's dedicated his life to? He did his job--we'd never expect a firefighter whose lungs are messed up from smoke inhalation to keep going forever, we'd never expect a policeman who'd been shot and disabled to keep going, and I really feel like Bruce deserves that ending in the sun, his hair long and smiling and being relaxed.

I'd seen some people unhappy about the ending, so I'd been feeling kind of defensive about my intuitive love of it, so you've helped me feel a lot better! I do snarkily suspect that some people who are angry about the ending are people who feel like Bruce isn't Bruce if he isn't hanging around and making a Robin miserable. :P

(I almost really want to write a story about Lucius and Alfred meeting up after and quietly letting each other know about Bruce, eeeeee!)

Oh God, I would soooo love to see your take on that, oh man. *encourages*

[starsandsea.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm glad I wasn't lecturing, and if it made you feel better about it all, then I'm glad! :)

Oh God, I would soooo love to see your take on that, oh man. *encourages*

*shifty eyes* I... might have written it. Maybe. (Hee!)